Saturday, October 17, 2015
It's up to you
Now that you've become experienced readers of The Odyssey, and now that you're experienced blog writers, you get to decide what you would like to comment on for this entry. You can start a discussion of a topic of your own choosing, or you can reply to a comment someone else made. It's up to you. Just make sure that your comment offers meaningful insight into some element of Book 12. Happy writing!!!!
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In book twelve Odysseus breaks away from his pattern of keeping information to himself and not informing his crew of the danger than lies ahead. Before he and his crew sail past the Sirens, he takes the time to alert them of the peril that lies ahead, “‘… she warns, we must steer clear of the Sirens, their enchanting song, their meadows starred with flowers.” (Page 276, line 172-173) Many of the problems faced previous to the Sirens have arisen because of Odysseus’ crew’s lack of knowledge or incentive to do what they must and it goes to reason that Odysseus confiding in his crew will perhaps allow them a slightly longer lifespan than they had previously. While this proves true with the Sirens, the crew knowing to bind Odysseus tighter to the mast the more he struggled and the crew not taking out the beeswax in their ears, as soon as the next challenge arises, Odysseus begins to fall back into his old ways. He informs his crew of Charybodis but not of Scylla, reasoning that “…the men would panic, desert their oars and huddle down and stow themselves away.” (Page 278, line 242-243) While this may be true, doesn’t it also make sense that informing the crew of their near certain death, should they row slowly, force them to be invested in rowing as quickly as possible? There’s no greater motivator than death, an idea that Odysseus should be incredibly familiar with, so why does he insist on continually pulling the wool over the eyes of his crew? To avoid panic? Or simply to have the upper hand? If he’s the only one who knows the plan, he’s also the only one with the keys to the escape pod. It’s been shown in previous chapters that Odysseus is willing to sacrifice his crew for himself (the island of the Laestrygonians he anchors his boat a safe distance from his crew in order to give himself the ability to escape) so the question is, just how far does that instinct for self-preservation extend?
ReplyDelete-Eilidh Dunsmore
The Fault on Odysseus’s Men
ReplyDeleteFrom previous events throughout Odysseus’s journey, we know that he has caused many problems for himself and his crew; from the retaliation of the Ciconnes resulting in the deaths of around 70 men to the slaughter caused by the Laestrygonians in which over 90% of his men are lost, they were caused in large part due to Odysseus’s decisions. However, his men do take some fault in the misfortune that falls upon the crew, which is shown once before and once during chapter 12. The incident before chapter 12 that causes a major setback for Odysseus’s entire crew is after they leave the Aeolian Island, concerning the bag of wind Aeolus gives to Odysseus as a parting gift. On page 231, Odysseus describes that the ships are actually within sight of Ithaca, reaching there in ten days with Aeolus’s help; he says, “Nine whole days we sailed, nine nights, nonstop. On the tenth our own land hove into sight at last – we were so close we could see men tending fires.” They would have almost certainly reached Ithaca by the evening of the tenth day if not for the envy of Odysseus’s men of Aeolus’s favoritism towards the king. On the tenth day, unknown to the sleeping Odysseus, his men, jealous of all of the gifts and plunder that only their captain had received, decided to open the great bag of wind to see what Aeolus gave to Odysseus. However, on opening the bag, the men found not gold or silver, but the wild winds, which blew them all the way back to the island of Aeolus, after getting so close to Ithaca that they could see fires on the shore. This tragic event happened solely because of the crew’s own greed and resent towards their captain and king.
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ReplyDeleteHowever, this is not the only instance during which Odysseus’s crew is responsible for their problems; in chapter 12, the crew manages to anger one of the gods, Helios, by killing his holy cows. As directed by the blind prophet Tiresias, Odysseus sails to Thrinacia, Helios’s island. Actually, Odysseus is opposed to even stopping there, for fear of his men killing the cows either accidentally or purposefully, though he does not say this exactly; when they near the island, Odysseus tells his crew on page 279, “…let me tell you the dire prophecies of Tiresias and Aeaean Circe too: time and again they told me to shun this island of the Sun, the joy of man. Here, they warned, the worst disaster awaits us.” However, one of the crew, Eurylochus, pleads with Odysseus to let them land there; the crew was exhausted and hungry, so they needed a rest before they could go on. He gained the support of the entire crew, and Odysseus had no choice but to comply, with one condition: the crew would swear a binding oath not to harm the cows and sheep of Helios on the island, so that they would all be safe from the prophecy. The crew agrees, but they cannot escape from the wrath of Helios. The night that the crew stopped there, a heavy wind began to blow against the direction that they were traveling, rendering it impossible for them to travel (page 281: “But for one whole month the South Wind blew nonstop, no other wind came up, none but the South south-east). Until the supplies ran out, the crew kept to their word and didn’t harm the cows, but once they ran out of food and Odysseus left to pray to the gods, it was Eurylochus again that became the main voice for killing the cows to eat; he tells his comrades on page 281, “…to die of hunger, to starve to death – that’s the worst of all. So up with you now, let’s drive off the pick of Helios’s sleek herds slaughter them to the gods who rule the skies up there. … I’d rather die at sea, with one deep gulp of death, than die by inches on this desolate island here!” And so, without Odysseus’s permission, they go and kill some cows to eat. At this, Odysseus knows that they are doomed to face the wrath of the gods, and indeed Helios is extremely angry; he says to the gods on pages 282-283, “…punish them all, that crew of Laertes’ son Odysseus – what an outrage! They, they killed my cattle, the great jow of my heart… Unless they pay me back in blood for the butchery of my herds, down I go to the House of Death and blaze among the dead!” Here, Helios threatens to leave the earth in darkness and shine only in the Underworld, and so Zeus complies to his wishes; when the ship leaves Thrinacia, he sends a gigantic storm to buffet the ship and smites it with a lightning bolt, destroying the ship, killing most of the men, and sending Odysseus adrift at sea, to arrive at Calypso’s island. So, due to the desperation and bad decisions of not Odysseus but his crew, the rest of Odysseus’s men died and he himself was left adrift at sea.
It’s true that some of the obstacles that Odysseus and his crew encounter in the Odyssey are the fault of the men with whom Odysseus sails. A possible reason for their mutinous acts may have to do with how Odysseus conducts himself around them. He generally acts superior, as if he knows best and must mentor the other men. Of course, there is a reason he is in charge of the ships, but to be an efficient and respected leader, you can’t throw superiority in the faces of the men who you depend on for survival and for a way home. Odysseus makes a lot of choices on his own that he neglects to include his men in or simply makes on his own; going to explore the Cyclopes island (Book 9), not telling them about Scylla (p.278), and staying at Circe’s island for a whole year (p.245; They plead to him to leave, “‘Captain, this is madness! High time you thought of your own home at last […]’” ). His men are always famished and exhausted, and while Odysseus may be feeling the same way, the fear of mutiny alone should make him strive to at least seem equal with the others. When he tells the story of his journey to the Phaeacians, he generally starts his sentences with ‘I’, despite the fact that what occurred occurred with him and his crew, which shows that he does have a feeling of superiority compared to the other men. However he feels, it is in his best interest to at least hide it to get home as quickly as possible, with problems only originating from the outside, not from his own men. They seem to have caught on to how Odysseus feels, and it is natural for them to want to bond together and form an “us against you” mindset. This ends up being negative for everyone; when, as Robert stated, they release the wind given to Odysseus by Aeolus, and when they slaughter the cattle of Helios, despite Odysseus’ strict and repeated instructions.
DeleteTHE ADVANTAGE OF FORESEEN FAITH
ReplyDeleteFrom what I observed from above, everyone seems to disagree with Odysseus decision when he and his crew encountered Scylla and Charybdis. The question aroused, what would happen if he DID inform them?
Firstly, it can be said with certainty that there will be AT LEAST 6 men died, no matter what. From the reading, we know that the Scylla was covered with thick mist so mortal eyes couldn’t see the creature. Only Odysseus, who acknowledged its existence beforehand, caught a glimpse of the unlucky men when they were devoured by Scylla. The rest of his crew actually knew nothing about the missing of these men. They rowed at their best to escape out of the scary surrounding of mist, NOT Scylla! That was how the ship escaped with minimum lost.
So considering the hypothetical situation, if Odysseus did inform the men, at the moment they entered the cave, they would know that they were rowing into death. Placing yourself in one of the men, I’m sure you wouldn’t even willing to get in, you would rather come back and feast with Circe. Or if you ever decided to take a chance of returning to Ithaca, that courage would fade out to mist when Scylla attacked. Every men would fight for his own precious life only and true, according to Odysseus, “…the men would panic, desert their oars and huddle down and stow themselves away.” That would only allow Scylla the chance to eat even more. The damage would definitely be more than just 6 men.
There’s a selfish side to this decision, true, Odysseus did armed himself, he didn’t want to be one of the 6 men nor did he willing to jump in and sacrifice for 1 of the 6 poor comrades. But after all, Odysseus was just the same as other men, longed to go home after years long journey and his decision didn’t just save him but the maximum number of his comrades.
Secondly, Robert did come up with an interesting topic, blaming the fault all on the crew. They were the one who went against Odysseus strict saying of not to slaughter Helios holy cows, causing fatal punishment from gods. However, I personally believe there’s a reasonable reason for Eurylochus advocation and the crew immediate agreement to him with out a second of thought.
As Sarah stated, Odysseus remained calm because he knows the way out and what to expect every time. Unfortunately, on the contrary to Odysseus, the crew knew absolutely nothing beforehand. They just realized that they were dying, group of men disappeared every stops. The crew’s mind were worn out by the thought that tomorrow they might be one of the unlucky men, die a torture death, being eaten, torn out by giants or some kind of monsters. Stated clearly in Eurylochus comment,"“…to die of hunger, to starve to death – that’s the worst of all. So up with you now, let’s drive off the pick of Helios’s sleek herds slaughter them to the gods who rule the skies up there. … I’d rather die at sea, with one deep gulp of death, than die by inches on this desolate island here!”, they would rather have a quick, straightaway death at sea. In addition, blinded by the hunger, death at that moment seems to be an easy decision.
Why bother leaving the island, strength exhausted by rowing just to face horrifying unexpected danger? They complied immediately to Eurylochus without thinking because for once, they know what to expect out there, beyond the waves.
Though it played a very small role in the entirety of Book 12, I think Odysseus’ emotions while performing a burial for Elpenor was a window into the deeper complexity of his character. In the last few chapters, I’ve been doubting Odysseus’ morals and his character overall, seeing him as selfish, self-involved, and disloyal. It’s growing more and more evident to me that Odysseus is not just a complex character, but there is almost a bipolar and ever-changing element that one could pick up on by reading about his character. In one moment, he’s weeping while hearing a bard sing a song of his past (Book 8) or crying over the death of his crewmate (book 12), while in the next moment, he is fearlessly conducting his men and holding himself as if he has immense superiority. His emotions are fluctuating constantly. Sometimes, he’s desperate to get home, driving his men forward and forcing them to move quickly so he may reach Ithaca, and other times he’s perfectly content ignoring the wishes of his crew and staying on Circe’s island for an entire year (book 10). However, throughout all this his crew remains loyal, even keeping him safe while he begs to be let off the ship after hearing the sirens’ seductive song.
ReplyDeleteEven so, I think the reason Odysseus’ crew has a tendency to rebel against him, such as slaughtering the Cattle of the Sun or disregarding his orders are because of the way Odysseus treats them. He doesn’t treat them as equals and his fluctuation and bipolar-ness in the way he changes his mind about routes and timing and changes his emotions so constantly affects his entire crew. Let’s not forget that they are trying to return to their families as well and Odysseus has impeded all of that.
When they finally do get back on course, I think Odysseus is beginning to see the errors of his ways and he tries his best to warn his crew not to kill the cows on Thrinacia which of course ensues a deadly storm brought on by Zeus that kills Odysseus’ crew, sends him back towards Charybdis and finally to Ogygia. I see this as a sort of karmic or perhaps in Odysseus’ case, “godly,” punishment that is finally coming to him, for letting so many men die on his behalf, for leaving men behind, and for treating his crew badly.
From my last blog post, I talked about the complicity of Odysseus’ character and how the these tragic events occurred because of his own decisions. Throughout the book, Odysseus has been cunning, secretive, and selfish. He certainly cares more about himself than the life of others. He carelessly left over 300 innocent men to die in the Laestrygonian Island, and he along with people on his ship escaped unharmed. In book twelve, however, his complicated characteristic fluctuates from being caring to selfish. Odysseus and his shipmates went back to Circe’s island and took the time to respect his dead friend, Elpenor by holding a funeral for him instead of leaving his dead body to perish in the woods. “We cut logs to haste and out on the island’s sharpest jutting headland held his funeral rites in sorrow, streaming tears. Once we’d burned the dead man and the dead man’s armor… we planted his balance oar aloft to crown his tomb (Page 271-272).” Odysseus had the choice to quickly head out to find the way home, but he used that time to recollect the memories of his friend. However, once they sailed off towards Scylla’s island, his selfishness outshines him again. “No mention of Scylla - how to fight that nightmare? - for fear the men would panic, desert their oars and huddle down and stow themselves away (Page 278).” He knew that six of men would die, but kept it to himself in fear that they would abandon the boat. He obviously cares more about himself than the life of others. If he had told the men about the Circe’s warning, they might have figured a different way out as a team. However, Odysseus kept the prophecy to himself. This clearly shows that Odysseus’ characteristic fluctuates from time to time, and his actions and thoughts are very unpredictable.
ReplyDelete-Pinn Chirathivat
Like Anna said, I think Odysseus isn't the selfish and cocky person we think, based on the first impressions he made of us. We see a glimpse of sympathy, when he buries Elpinor and says his rites while crying. I just think Odysseus wants to be that high power that everyone respects, and always is in serious mode. We see that he indeed has a emotional side to him. I also think that his crew doesn't like him, because he always is telling him what to do without listening to what they have to say. When Odysseus saw that they killed the cattle, he was enraged and felt betrayed. I think that made him feel bad about how he has been treating them. He really doesn't care about the personal sides of the crew, only the fact that they work for him.
ReplyDeleteI am very disappointed at Odysseus's skill as a leader. For a great and powerful king, he seems to have a lot of difficulty both keeping his men alive, and getting them to do as instructed. A clear example of this is when his men disobey his direct orders and kill one of Helio's cattle. As a result Helios decides to "punish them all, that crew of Laertes’ son Odysseus". Odysseus seems to time and time again end up losing his men, either from them not listening, or him seemingly putting himself first. This is expressed when he says that he "alone anchored my black ship outside, well clear of the harbor's jaws I tied her fast to a cliff side cable." A good leader is supposed to put their men’s safety above their home, and this action is another example of Odysseus lacking basic leadership skills. As amazing and talented as Odysseus is made out to be, recent actions have made me seriously question his ability to lead his men.
ReplyDeleteThrough the last few chapters, Odysseus’ character has vastly changed. Although still complex, he has shown sides of him that weren’t really appreciated until now. At a point I thought Odysseus was a horrible, immoral being. For example, in book 10 he refers to his crew as “mutinous” because of their journey’s failure. This displays his not-so-great side but when we are brought o the scene in book 12 where he is at the burial of Elpenor, Odysseus is not able to hold back the tears and genuine emotions pour out of him without even saying a word in that instant. Despite his ability of being vulnerable, Odysseus always ends up leading the way whether successful or not. He later proceeds with his –what feels like everlasting- mission and leads his men with the most dominance one can obtain. This shows that his character in a matter of lines can change immensely. Despite his fickle emotions his crew remains loyal to him. In book 12, Odysseus is enticed by the sirens’ song and the crew helps him remain on the ship. Even if they seem loyal the crew is also complex as well. One minute their loyal but somehow still manage to rebel against the foreman’s requests such as slaughtering the cattle when they were specifically begged not to. I think they commit such things because of the way Odysseus may be treating them. He tends to disregard how they are feeling and instead focuses on himself. By being such a complex being, he fails to realize that sometimes his rash decisions are not beneficiary for him especially his crew. Strangely enough, I believe that as the crew-well what’s left of it- and Odysseus go on further into their journey back home, Odysseus is beginning to see his mistakes and what he could have done to stop some things from happening. What happens to his crew after killing the cattle, seems like a wake up call for Odysseus and is a reminder on why he is still alive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of the blogs above. Lots of the troubles that Odysseus and his men seem to encounter do seem to originate from within themselves. Well actually I think lots of them don't originate from them, they originate from the outside. Like they can't control monsters and gods, but I do think they could handle the, better. Odysseus does seem to feel that he is better than lots of his crew, which may be legitimate because he is a hero. However a crew will respond much better to a leader who is humble and confident instead of cocky. One example of how Odysseus clearly puts himself over his crew is when he tells his crew, “I alone was to hear their voices, so she said you must bind me with tight chafing ropes so I cannot move a muscle…” (276). He tells them that he has to hear the voices when Circe just said that if he wanted to hear them he could. So he chooses to have the pleasure of hearing them and no one else gets to. Even though I feel that Odysseus is a little cocky, I still feel that he is a good leader. He isn't a bad person. He clearly cares a lot about his men and don't want any of them to die. Even when Circe tells him that he won't be able to save all his men because Scylla will take at least six. He still tries to find away around that so that he doesn't loose any men. That is a sign of an unselfish leader. He could just loose six men and continue on but instead he wants to find a way around it even if it means outing himself in danger.
ReplyDeleteNicola Sommers
Throughout many different books in "The Odyssey" Odysseus receives lots of guidance which he is very lucky to get. When reading Book 12 I found a few lines to be very ironic when he was receiving advice from Circe. I was able to make a few connections right away. On page 275 in the first paragraph line 128 "Scylla's no mortal, she's an immortal devastation, terrible, savage, wild, no fighting her, no defense—just flee the creature, that's the only way." This really started to tie things together, it is clear that Odysseus is a fighter and he also seems to still be a fighter when it comes to immortals. Circe is warning him that he will not be able to beat an immortal no matter what. Odysseus already has and later on in book 12 got more immortals to be his enemy, Poseidon and Helios. This means that there will be no way out for Odysseus, he will not be able to over come either of them. Although he can run away from Scylla, gods like Helios and Poseidon are not escapable, and definitely not fightable. I feel as though this foreshadows Odysseus' future and the rest of his journey which will not be very pleasant and will not end well(even though it already isn't going well).
ReplyDeleteIsabella Deluca
Odysseus was not a good leader in book twelve. He did not tell his crew about Scylla because he thought it would panic them. This maybe true, but he should have yold them because his crew would have rowed faster. He should have told his crew about the consequences of hurting the cow as well. If he told the crew about how they would not see Ithaca again if they killed the cows, his crew would not have killed them. Odysseus is keeping a lot of important information that should be shared with his crew because then some of them wouldn't have died. Odysseus is always putting himself before others. For example, when he anchored his ship outside the port for a quick getaway is selfish. A good leader puts his men before anything else, including themselves. In the previous books we have heard of Odysseus being described as wise and cunning. It was not wise of Odysseus to not tell his crew about the consequences and punishments. Odysseus's leader ship skills and personality are complex.
ReplyDeleteKeeping Robert's ideas in mind, I really pity Odysseus. Before all the prophecies, mostly repeated by Circe and I believe it was also spoken by Tiresias, I knew something bad had to happen soon that would result in Odysseus marooned on Calypso's island without a ship and his crew. But, maybe he was better off without them, seeing that their actions led to their own annihilation alongside with the ship. I'm not saying Odysseus could've made it this far without them, but like some mentioned, it is their fault they are dead and Odysseus is left without a ship and is doomed to be away from home longer than he wanted. Time and time again, Circe foretold the fate of Odysseus if he or his men harmed the cattle of the sun god Helios. One line where this is told, and I want to emphasize that is is said more than once, is line 137. On line 148 on pg. 275, she says, 'leave the beasts unharmed, your mind set on home...but harm them in any way, and I can see it now: your ship destroyed, your men destroyed as well! And even if you escape, you'll come home late...' Putting the pieces together, you assume that someone did something to the sheep. I wouldn't fully blame the crew, even though Odysseus told them, repetitively, not to harm the livestock, but Odysseus is still at fault as well. I'm not saying it's because he was catching some Z's while the event took place, I feel that he needed to enforce the rule more often to remind the men, this can't happen! I mean, they stay disciplined for a whole unlucky month (referring to the wind currents). Going back to a time where this all could've been avoided, I want to focus on what Eurylochus said on the ship which made them dock in the first place. While all the crew just were complaining to themselves of how they wanted to go on land, he took action and eventually rallied the rest of the men behind him, sort of forcing Odysseus to yield to his commands. Odysseus, however, such a great leader, should've stood up to them and told them 'no', because this whole occurrence could have been precluded. Anyways, Mr. Persuasive Eurylochus decided upon himself that he would kill the cattle for food because it's better to die at see then to starve to death, right? On line 377 on pg. 282, he said, 'I'd rather die at sea, with one deep gulp of death, then die by inches on this desolate island here's!' Of course, because apparently the crew can't speak there perspectives, they agree with him almost immediately and carry out with his plan. They killed the cattle, Odysseus found out, prayed for forgiveness, instead Lampetie spilled the beans to Helios who pleaded to Zeus to kill these slaughterers! The men continue to feast on the meat for six days, before Zeus calms the winds and they are free to go. Of course, Odysseus had to see what was coming and after drifting past Scylla and Charybdis again on debris he finally reaches Calypso's island, where I guess he has a good time at first, but his arrival home is prolonged due to his eager men. The reason why I believe Odysseus is partly to blame is because I feel that since everyone drilled what could've happened if they harmed the cattle into his head, he was very aware of the consequences and if he was more persistent with his men, constantly reminding them everyday, then possibly, they could've left the island untouched, and returned to Ithaca in a quicker fashion the what actually occurred. I still pity Odysseus though, and I feel he put too much trust in his men, and had to be more careful.
ReplyDelete-Sam Kaplan